Wednesday, March 31, 2010

Wishing Each of You a Blessed Easter

To my regular readers, I apologize for not posting more often over the last week or so. A number of personal issues have, and rightly so, taken priority. Hopefully, sometime after Easter, things will resume to normal.

I will take a few days off to focus on the death and Resurrection of Jesus Christ and to be with family.

I will keep the Holy Father, the priests and religious of this Archdiocese and all of you in my prayers.

I ask you to keep me in your prayers.

Tuesday, March 30, 2010

Planned Parenthood thanks Liberal Nuns

I wonder how much longer will Archbishop Wuerl will remain silent.

Washington D.C., Mar 27, 2010 / 07:28 am (CNA).- Planned Parenthood president Cecile Richards has praised the Catholic religious sisters who endorsed the Senate health care bill, claiming they deserve gratitude for making “a critical demonstration of support” for a bill that significantly increased coverage of “reproductive health care.”

Writing for the Huffington Post Wednesday in her capacity as president of the Planned Parenthood Action Fund, Richards claimed that it was Catholic nuns who “most importantly broke with the bishops and the Vatican to announce their support for health care reform.”

To read more, go here.

To read some good between the lines commentary go here.

H/T to the Curt Jester.

Monday, March 29, 2010

Recommendatons Requested...

I am looking for a good Rosary CD. I don't want anything fancy just a good basic one that will help me say it on my long drives. Alternatively, if there is a site that I can download one, and create my own CD that would be fine too.

I saw one of the EWTN site by Mother Angelica and the good sisters. Is that one any good? Do you know of a better one?


Friday, March 26, 2010

Could this be the reason why Archbishop Wuerl was silent over the last few weeks?

UPDATE: According to CATHOLICVOTE.ORG, Sr. Keehan has decided that this is not the appropriate time to speak to the Society. If you go the Society website, her name has been removed from the Dinner notice.


Sr. Carol Keehan is scheduled to speak at the Annual Dinner of the John Carroll Society on April 16th. The John Carroll Society:

Founded in 1951...promotes the enhancement of spiritual, intellectual and social fellowship among its members—in service to the Archbishop of Washington. The Society is named after the first Catholic bishop in the United States.

The Society accomplishes this goal principally through a series of events scheduled throughout the calendar year. Most notably, these events include the Red Mass and Rose Mass, for the region's Catholic legal and health care professionals (respectively).

It is time to write to the Society (let's be nice) to rescind the invitation to speak.

This one of the reasons, in my opinion, why the Archbishop was so silent during the last few weeks.

It would be pretty embarrassing for him to come out against someone who you invited to speak at the annual dinner. Especially, someone who sold out the unborn and worked against the bishops on this. But then again, the Archbishop seems to have no problem honoring pro-abortionists like Steve and Cokie Roberts and John Sweeney, so why should he have a problem with this.

In fact, I bet that when challenged, he will use the Notre Dame Defense: We are not honoring her, we are just inviting her to speak.

The John Carroll Society
P.O. Box 454
Glen Echo, MD 20812
Phone: 202-537-6110

PS: Makes me wonder what the Standard will actually print after the event. I'll be watching. And a thank you to Tom Peters over at for bringing this to our attention.

Stupid Biden Comment

Yes folks, it is that time to recognize the highest ranking elected official in the United States, who happens to be "Catholyc": Vice President Joseph Biden.

Now, many of us consider the term used in the video to be vulgar and an obsenity. For many in our culture -- rap artists, hollywood script writers, assorted Mafia members -- this is just part of their normal speech pattern.

However, have you noticed how silent the mainstream media is on this? If Dan Quayle or Dick Cheney had said it, you could be damn certain that the media would be talking about it for days. And, if you followed the story a bit, the Most Merciful's press secretary, when asked about it, said yes, the Vice President was right.

But I think that there will be a much more damage in the longer term.

Do you remember when Monica and Bill had their thing? It was reported on a number of occassions that teenagers were saying: "Hey, if the President of the US can do it with an intern, then what makes it so wrong?"

I can see teenagers now saying: "Hey the Vice President said it, nobody got on his case, so why can't I say it?"

Who elected that idiot anyway?

PS: At this rate, I can start another blog just on the STUPID stuff he says.

Thursday, March 25, 2010


Maryland may soon allow tax credits for businesses that make scholarship donations for private school students, but some opponents say the proposal is too close to voucher programs and could wind up funding schools with discriminatory hiring practices.

The legislation in play would also give companies the tax credit if they contribute to enrichment programs for public school students or continuing teacher education at both public and private schools. Firms would receive credits worth 75 percent of their donation, up to $200,000.

For more information...

Guess Who is NOT on the list..and another slap from Georgetown University...and more drivel from the WaPo

Guess who is not on the list opposing the Health Care Bill...

and another
slap in the face from Georgetown and...

more drivel from the Washington Compost...

The historic vote that made health-care reform into law ends a three-decades' old anti-abortion strategy. The ground has shifted from under the old-line bishops and the single-issue National Right to Life organizations or blogs like those from the redoubtable Catholic League that want to stop abortions by legal and/or judicial fiat. It's painfully obvious that the previous strategy is obsolete. The unlikely trio of Rep. Bart Stupak (D-Mich.), Sen. Bob Casey, Jr. (D-Penn.) and House Speaker Nancy Pelosi (D-Calif.) were three Catholics who drove home this message as Sunday's contest turned into Monday morning.

Read the rest of it here...if you have the stomach for it.

Wednesday, March 24, 2010

It's Like Christmas...

"It's just going to be like Christmas," said DeCarlo Flythe, who lost health coverage for his family when he was laid off almost three years ago. "It's going to be great. You know, no worries (about) the bills. We are going to go ahead and pay our co-pay and be alright."


Cardinal Francis George of Chicago, president of the United States Conference of Catholic Bishops, made the call March 23, moments after president Barack Obama signed the Senate version of health care reform legislation approved by the House of Representatives by a slim margin, March 21. The statement was approved unanimously by the 32-member Administrative Committee of the USCCB.

“We applaud the effort to expand health care to all,” Cardinal George said.


Sunday, the House passed the health care bill.

The Democrat Party bought off various Senators and Representatives with such things as the Louisiana Purchase and the Cornhusker Compromise. They bought off Stupak for less than $2 million (although he really wasn't on our side). They changed the rules, ignored points of order and did everything they could to ram this through.

Our Bishops supported this and then did not support this and then supported it again. Archbishop Wuerl remained quite silent during these last few months only allowing Susan Gibbs to issue press releases. Our liberal Catholycs, such as the President's spokemand Mr. Gibbs, did everything they could to confuse the average Catholic.

What does this mean for the average person? In the short term (a couple of months), not much. In the longer term, much.

There is so much to say, I don't even know where to begin.

We were told over 30 years ago, by none other than Teddy Kennedy, that HMOs would solve the problem of insurance and coverage for all. That did not happen.

We keep hearing about all those with pre-existing conditions will be accepted. Great but what type of care will they get. Will they get everything like now or will they only get a limited amount of health care.

And the Executive Order that the President will sign regarding abortion is a joke. That can easily be cancelled. Remember, what the most Most Merciful, Lord High Barack Obama did when he got into office regarding the Mexico Policy?

And what of our Catholic hospitals and medical institutions? CHA and Sister "what's her face" see $$$ signs in their eyes.

Well, there is no need for additional fundraising, since the government will take care of everything. Right?

There is no need to a Spanish Catholic Center to provide medical treatment. Right? But, you will see continued fundraising in this area because as we all know, there will never be enough funding to cover all costs.

It may be Christmas for DeCarlo Flythe but someone will have to pay the bill. It may not be him but a middle income person like myself will be the one.

It is really all in vain because the Most Merciful will tax me at a huge rate.

And what does the USCCB -- they state that it is wonderful that we now have health care for all. Have they been nipping at the sacramental wine? has a wonderful article about what this will do to you. Maybe Cardinal George should have read it before he made the congratulation call.

And have you noticed how silent Archbishop Wuerl has been. Not a peep. Maybe he is overjoyed at it but does not want to admit it.

I am no longer giving to Archbishop's Appeal and a number of the collections taken up by the USCCB.

The next thing will be for me to start to cut back on the additional fundraisers my parish undertakes, once my taxes begin to increase.

Yep, it may be Christmas for some but "someone has to pay the piper."

Tuesday, March 23, 2010

Stupid Biden Quote

Yes, we now bring you another stellar quote from the highest elected "Catholyc" official in the United States, Vice President Joe Biden:

"Look, John's last-minute economic plan does nothing to tackle the number one job facing the middle class, and it happens to be, as Barack says, a three-letter word: jobs. J-O-B-S."

Biden speaking about John McCain's economic policies at a US presidential election rally, October 2008 .

Monday, March 22, 2010

Catholic Charities - Board of Directors

Our colleague(s) over at Restore DC Catholicism have looked into the Board of Catholic Charities DC. A number of them, just by a quick search, seem to support pro-abortion/anti-family politicians.

Now, as some of you know, that when you obtain a seat on a Board of Directors, like Catholic Charities DC, you are committed to either contribute or raise a certain amount of dollars for the organization. In fact, it is my understanding, that there is at least one Parish Council in this diocese that not only expects members to donate time and talent but also over $1000 on top of their normal giving.

Now, I don't know Ms. Van Hollen. Never met her. But I would assume that she is both pro-abortion and pro-gay marriage. (She at leasts supports her husband -- who voted against the DC Opportunity Scholarships, supports gay marriage and is radically pro-abortion.) Maybe she is not but for the sake of today's posting, let's assume that she is. (I would love to hear from someone who knows.)

The point of this blog posting is, whether is is morally acceptable to have people on the Board of Directors of Catholic Charities DC, who support politicians who are in many instances, diametrically opposed to what the Catholic Church stands for in exchange for $$$.

Living in the US, you can support whomever you want, but does that mean that an organization must have you on the Board?

Personally, I believe that we sell out our beliefs when we do so, for $30,000 or $40,000 or more of donations promised per person.

I would love to hear from Catholic Charities on this, but I know that they will not respond.

What do you think?

Sunday, March 21, 2010

To those on the pro-life side who support this bill...

MORE I have one question to ask the witness. (RICH stops) That's a chain of office you are wearing. (Reluctantly RICH faces him) May I see it?

(NORFOLK motions him to approach. MORE examines the medallion) The red dragon

(To CROMWELL) What's this?

CROMWELL Sir Richard is appointed Attorney-General for Wales.

MORE (Looking into RICH'S face, with pain and amusement) For Wales? Why, Richard, it profits a man nothing to give his soul for the whole world . . . But for Wales! (Exit RICH, stiff-faced, but infrangibly dignified)

Saturday, March 20, 2010

Stupid Biden Quotes

Once again, I provide you with a quote from the highest elected Catholyc in the land, Vice President Joe Biden.

"I wouldn't go anywhere in confined places now. … When one person sneezes it goes all the way through the aircraft. That's me. I would not be, at this point, if they had another way of transportation, suggesting they ride the subway."

Joe Biden, providing handy tips to protect against the swine flu and freaking us out, "Today Show" interview, April 30, 2009

Stupid Biden Quote

So today, as we end a very busy week, we bring you an other stupid quote from the highest elected catholyc in the US, VP Joe Biden. Here is a quote of him, in a conversation with an Indian American political activist in 2006:

In Delaware, the largest growth of population is Indian Americans, moving from India. You cannot go to a 7/11 or a Dunkin’ Donuts unless you have a slight Indian accent. I’m not joking.

Stupid Biden Quotes

Today, I begin a process by which to document the STUPID stuff of the highest ranking "Roman Catholyc" in the United States Government: Vice President Joseph Biden.

Now I have been thinking about this for a long time. Bush was raked over the coals for any mistake he made, even though he suffers from dyslexia.

Now I know, this will gain me the hatred of liberal Catholics everywhere, but what is one more group.

So, for today, from the Associated Press (March 18, 2010):

Vice President Joe Biden asked for God's blessing for the late mother of Irish Prime Minister Brian Cowen during a White House celebration of St. Patrick's Day — except the elderly lady is very much alive.

Friday, March 19, 2010

Does She Have No Shame?

Why has Archbishop Wuerl remained silent on this disaster waiting to happen? When will he say something? Will he say it when the the voting is showing that this is a done deal?

Happy Name Day

First, to all those named Joseph, Josephine and all of the other derivations of the name, I wish you a Happy Feast Day.

For those of you who are Italian or Italian-American, I hope that someone buys you a St. Joseph zeppole. Even if you are not Italian, go find a St. Joseph zeppole and enjoy!

Thursday, March 18, 2010

Dispensation for Friday - It's St. Joseph's Day

This is the very first time I have heard of this - Dispensation on Friday because it is St. Joseph's Day. Yes, folks, according to Canon 1251: "Abstinence from eating meat or another food according to the prescriptions of the conference of bishops is to be observed on Fridays throughout the year unless (nisi) they are solemnities; abstinence and fast are to be observed on Ash Wednesday and on the Friday of the Passion and Death of Our Lord Jesus Christ."

The Archdiocese has even put out a news release on this.

Meanwhile, we have the Catholic Health Association (a trade group) and a radical group of nuns supporting this disaster of health care, and our Archbishop has been silent. He was not silent a few months ago, when he advocated that all illegal aliens should be covered. He was not silent when he urged for their to be health care reform.

Now, when the forces of evil (there, I said it) are willing to undermine the Constitution, make a power grab for a huge part of our economy, push through millions of dollars for abortion, our Archbishop remains silent.

Archbishop Wuerl, being silent on this will not make it go away. Being silent on this, and as my father would say "Mark my words," it will mean the end of Catholic Hospitals have moral standards. They will force us to do abortions and there will be no conscience clause.

Archbishop Wuerl, it is time to stand up and be counted.

Tuesday, March 16, 2010

Some thoughts on Catholic Education...

Last week, it was announced that the Superintendent of Schools for the Archdiocese was stepping down.

For those of you who did not notice, there was real coordination between the Catholic Standard and Office of Communication. The Catholic Standard arrives in mailboxes for those who subscribe usually on Thursday. The announcement via Twitter (thanks Kat) went out Thursday about 11:30am, as well as, a press release. So, for those who received the Standard on Thursday (thanks Melvin, since I let mine lapse), it may have looked to many that this was sudden. (We know that this was probably in place for a week or so and that the story on the resignation was ready no later than Tuesday, so that it could be printed and mailed.)

By the way, have you noticed there has been no announcement in the Standard or from the Office of Communication that St. Michael's (Silver Spring) will either close or remain open. On parishioner has told me that the pastor and principal are fighting hard to keep it open. But I digress...

In addition, the story in the Standard does not talk at all about the Consortium or the closing of schools this year.

However, the story is not the coordination between the Standard and Office of Communication but the reasons behind it.

For the second major time in her tenure, there was a second round of Catholic Schools closing. Although not as bad as in Baltimore at one time, the possible closing of seven schools (three have been announced) is not something that is a gold star on your record.

In talking with one parent who has two children in the system, felt that the Superintendent was very interested in the quality of education. She had heard Dr. Patricia Weitzel-O’Neill speak at her children's school on a couple of occasions and was impressed by her. She believes that she probably clashed with the Archbishop over the closing of the schools.

When asked if she felt that the Superintendent should share any blame for the closing, the answer was no.

Now, this does not mean that the parent in question is clueless about things. No, it is just her take on things.

Personally, I believe it is a combination of the two: poor long term planning and the pressure to close schools to cut the budget by the Archbishop.

Do you think she was pushed out due to battles with the Archbishop over closings? Do you think she refused to be the "fall guy" for this anymore? Do you think she left because she was disgusted by the push to close schools? A combination of all?

What do you think?

Monday, March 15, 2010

Stand Up Against the Monster Called Health Care Reform

Although the Catholic Health Association, IMHO, has sold its' soul in endorsing this train wreck about to happen, you don't have to. Please call or write to your Representatives to stop this from happening.

Here is an interesting story about why the Democrat Party is pushing abortion is health care.

Here is a link to a listing of all Reps by state.

Contact them. Today.

Friday, March 12, 2010

Perry Como - Ave Maria

This past weekend, I was browsing thru a religous catalgoue and came across a Perry Como album of religious hymns. As a child, I remember his Christmas specials and this was always part of it. And for those of you who do not know, Mr. C was Roman Catholic.

Although this is probably his earliest version, I thought I would share one of my favorite renditions of Ave Maria with each of you.

Have a good weekend, there will be a great deal to discuss next week.

Thursday, March 11, 2010

Breaking News...

Patricia Weitzel-O’Neill, Ph.D., superintendent of schools for the Archdiocese of Washington, will step down in June 2010 to become executive director of the Center for Catholic Education at Boston College’s Lynch School of Education.

For more, go here.

Suddenly, he supports us...

According to Catholic News Service (CNS) dated: March 10, 2010:

A business tax credit benefiting public and nonpublic schools received a major boost when Gov. Martin J. O'Malley threw his public support behind the long-sought measure. The Senate Budget and Taxation Committee voted 10-5 to send the proposal to the Senate, but discussion on the floor planned for March 10 was held up a day so one Democratic lawmaker could prepare an amendment to ensure that special needs children have access to private schooling. The bill itself would establish a business tax credit known as BOAST, or Building Opportunities for All Students and Teachers in Maryland. It would grant businesses a 75 percent state income tax credit for donations to scholarship organizations for nonpublic school students. It also would support enrichment programs in public schools and professional development for public and private school teachers. "The BOAST bill will increase scholarships for children in low- and middle-income families and stabilize enrollment in nonpublic schools," O'Malley said in a March 3 letter to the Senate committee. "I believe the bill is crucial if we are to stem the tide of private school closures in the state." O'Malley said school closures "represent a loss of educational diversity and opportunity for our students and will ultimately increase costs and enrollment pressures on our public school systems." Support for the tax credit found a sense of urgency after the Baltimore Archdiocese announced March 4 what it called a consolidation plan affecting 13 schools -- 12 elementary and one secondary. Under the plan the schools will close next fall, with each of those schools paired with a receiving school to accept its students.

Did you notice that the ultimate reason is he is worred about the increase in budget expenditures? He knows that every child in a Caholic school saves the State of Maryland and local governments $12,000.

I wonder if he would feel the same if there was an economic boom?

Wednesday, March 10, 2010

On Catholic Schools

Archbishop Chaput on Catholic Schools:

Our schools, however, exist primarily to serve Catholic families with an education shaped by Catholic faith and moral formation. This is common sense. Other religious traditions do the same according to their beliefs, and at a heavy sacrifice. We need to remember that Catholic families pay twice for a Catholic education: through their taxes, they fund public education; then they pay again to send their children to a Catholic school. The idea that Catholic schools should require support for Catholic teaching for admission, and a serious effort from school families to live their Catholic identity faithfully, is reasonable and just.

That’s the background. Now to the human side of a painful situation. The Church never looks for reasons to turn anyone away from a Catholic education. But the Church can’t change her moral beliefs without undermining her mission and failing to serve the many families who believe in that mission. If Catholics take their faith seriously, they naturally follow the teachings of the Church in matters of faith and morals; otherwise they take themselves outside the believing community.

The Church does not claim that people with a homosexual orientation are “bad,” or that their children are less loved by God. Quite the opposite. But what the Church does teach is that sexual intimacy by anyone outside marriage is wrong; that marriage is a sacramental covenant; and that marriage can only occur between a man and a woman. These beliefs are central to a Catholic understanding of human nature, family and happiness, and the organization of society. The Church cannot change these teachings because, in the faith of Catholics, they are the teachings of Jesus Christ.

The policies of our Catholic school system exist to protect all parties involved, including the children of homosexual couples and the couples themselves. Our schools are meant to be “partners in faith” with parents. If parents don’t respect the beliefs of the Church, or live in a manner that openly rejects those beliefs, then partnering with those parents becomes very difficult, if not impossible. It also places unfair stress on the children, who find themselves caught in the middle, and on their teachers, who have an obligation to teach the authentic faith of the Church.

Most parents who send their children to Catholic schools want an environment where the Catholic faith is fully taught and practiced. That simply can’t be done if teachers need to worry about wounding the feelings of their students or about alienating students from their parents. That isn’t fair to anyone—including the wider school community. Persons who have an understanding of marriage and family life sharply different from Catholic belief are often people of sincerity and good will. They have other, excellent options for education and should see in them the better course for their children.

Thank God for Archbishop Chaput. To read more, go here.

Tuesday, March 9, 2010

St. Aloysius - Liturgical Abuse?

A few weeks ago, I wrote that St. Al's was seen as one of the four "gay friendly" parishes in the Diocese by New Way Ministries. I had not realized that I wrote about that same parish almost a year ago, when they too were listed as one of the Washington DC "gay friendly" parishes by the Conference of Catholic Lesbians (April 9, 2009).

In the past, when I have attended Mass, and the group is very small, we are sometimes asked to speak up and offer our own intentions during the Prayers of the Faithful. Usually, someone will ask for prayers for Uncle Bob with cancer, a couple who is going thru a rough time in their marriage, etc. All very, very good things and most pretty non-controversial.

However, when someone prays that the Archdiocese change their their practices of discrimination, or that we should not pay our Federal taxes to support the military and asks the congregation to do so, and the congregation prays for it, what does this say about the pastor and parish. Is this a liturgical abuse? I am not an expert in liturgical practices but I would probably say yes.

You can read about this and a couple of other things at the Capitol Catholic.

Monday, March 8, 2010


Over the last few weeks, there have been quite a number of comments.

First, I thank those who read this blog and are so inclined to comment. I attempt to post as many as possible but there have been a few which I have deleted.

I have noticed a real change in the tone of the comments over the last few weeks. And to be quite honest, I do not appreciate the tone. These comments are the product of a small number of readers.

So, I will ask again, to please be civil in your comments.

If you cannot be civil, then do not comment.

Thank you.

Friday, March 5, 2010

Not a Good Week

Well, it has not been a good week for the Archdiocese of Washington DC and those who believe in true marriage.

First, the Archdiocese takes a bit of a beating in the media due to the changes in the health care benefits offered to new employees.

Second, same-sex marriages are allowed in DC.

The second matter should send a wake up call to Catholics who are faithful to the Church. We need to start to elect lawmakers who believe as we do. We cannot just simply pull the lever for someone because they have been there for a long time or are part of one party.

The first matter should really be a wake up call not only for this Archdiocese and Catholic Charities but for all. That call should be: "Do not get involved in contracts with government." This call should not be based on the so called "separation of church/state." It is more along the lines that when you take money from the government, you almost become addicted to it. You will do almost whatever it takes to keep from losing it, including keeping silent at times.

I believe, and I have done so for a long time, that we should divest ourselves of all government contracts.

I hope that the Archdiocese of Washington DC will, as the contracts come to an end, refuse to renew them and get out. Let the DC goverment and their citizens learn the hard way that they will pay more, and get less, because they are pandering to a small but vocal minority.

And those are my thoughts. What do you think?

Wednesday, March 3, 2010

Catholic Education, Abortion and the Archdiocese of Washington

At the National Catholic Education Association (NCEA) Conference this year, the keynote speaker is Garrison Keillor. Most of us know him from Prairie Home Companion and probably think he is one of those quaint humorists.

However, did you know that he supports abortion and same sex marriages?

So, I guess the question that I would ask is: How did he come to be the keynote speaker? Did anyone do a background check? Did they figure they could get a big name at a low cost, since the conference takes place in St. Paul/Minneapolis?

More importantly, how did Archbishop Wuerl, who is listed as the Board Chair of the NCEA let this happen?

Why does this sort of stuff continue to happen on his "watch?"

Tuesday, March 2, 2010


According to AP:

The Archdiocese of Washington will change an employee health care policy because of a same-sex marriage law expected to take effect this week in D.C.
Starting on Tuesday, the church will no longer let employees of its Catholic Charities add spouses to their health care coverage.

Catholic Charities, which provides services such as substance abuse treatment programs and shelters, employees some 850 people. Church spokeswoman Susan Gibbs says currently about 10 percent of those employees have their spouses covered by their health care plan. Catholic Charities sent a letter to employees Monday about the changes. Without them the church could have had to extend coverage to an employee's same-sex spouse.

A bill allowing same-sex marriage is expected to become law in the city on Wednesday.

An Interesting Blog

Whenever you watch one of the "food" channels, you come across the story of someone who is on a quest to visit every Starbucks or McDonald's. When I was a child, I remember watching a story of a newspaper reporter who would visit a different church every other week and write about it in his city.

Well combine the two and you sort of have the next blog I have decided to add to my Blog Roll: Capitol Catholic.

According to the website:

My name is Michael. I'm a freshman at the George Washington University in Washington, D.C. I'm embarking on a project to attend mass at every Catholic Church in Washington, D.C. I'm using this blog to share my thoughts and observations on this project with others. Any proceeds from this blog will benefit Catholic Charities DC.

It is interesting and I plan on visiting on a regular basis. Who knows, we may even see a story in the Catholic Standard about him. (I know I won't see one about this blog in it, until hell freezes over.)